Thanks for this. Sad and sobering. Also, true and no sadder or more sobering than what the Bible says about pastoral ministry and abuse.. obviously, since you quote a few of those passages. This reminds me of conversations I've heard among Church historians about the Reformation. Some have mused that 500 years after the Reformation is significant to our history, because given the rhythms of history and the state of the Church, they suspect it is time for something similar and/or symmetrical to the Reformation. I've usually heard this in reference to imagined ecumenical scenarios, but your post calls for reform that has a lot of symmetry and similarity with the Reformation. Which is all to say you remind me of how impactful the Church's current situation will probably be for our future.
this is something I put together re "metanoia", & Erasmus' translation of this Greek word compared to the Latin Vulgate's, that inspired Luther's 95 thesis & the reformation... it includes several sources that you might find interesting to read...
Your number 71: Again, “When did God say he hates divorce more than he hates violence and oppression?”
The notion that God said he hates divorce is based on a questionable translation of Malachi 2:16. See the following articles for more info on how that verse has been translated.
Thanks for those resources Barbara! Really grateful for all the research you’ve done on the matter. The question in #71 is rhetorical, I agree the “God hates divorce” is a bad translation. Perhaps a better rhetorical question would be, “Is it just to say ‘God hates divorce’ when women and children are being oppressed?”
I don't agree that a better rhetorical question would be "Is it just to say 'God hates divorce' when women and children are being oppressed."
Rather than posing a rhetorical question on that point, it would be better to say straight out, "The idea that 'God hates divorce' is based on a mis-translation of Malachi 2:16."
The bad translation has done enormous harm, and it's very hard to erase it from the minds of most Christians. It needs to be repeatedly exposed and denounced.
If you really wanted to use a rhetorical question, it could be, "Is it fair to say 'God hates divorce' when that notion is based on a mis-translation of Malachi 2:16?"
Thanks for the feedback Barbara! I appreciate the challenge to be more clear. It’s something I’ve wrestled with in this document, which is intentionally more rhetorical (in the sense of style and affect) and sometimes less clear than it could be with a different style. You’ve given me some good constructive criticism!
Thanks for this. Sad and sobering. Also, true and no sadder or more sobering than what the Bible says about pastoral ministry and abuse.. obviously, since you quote a few of those passages. This reminds me of conversations I've heard among Church historians about the Reformation. Some have mused that 500 years after the Reformation is significant to our history, because given the rhythms of history and the state of the Church, they suspect it is time for something similar and/or symmetrical to the Reformation. I've usually heard this in reference to imagined ecumenical scenarios, but your post calls for reform that has a lot of symmetry and similarity with the Reformation. Which is all to say you remind me of how impactful the Church's current situation will probably be for our future.
Thanks Jared. The point about patterns and rhythms in history is a good one.
this is something I put together re "metanoia", & Erasmus' translation of this Greek word compared to the Latin Vulgate's, that inspired Luther's 95 thesis & the reformation... it includes several sources that you might find interesting to read...
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hQok6feSGd6S0TkDPZAvXYr3vS-luIv0LCMUkiczcdw/edit
I am interested to read that, thanks Bev!
Thanks Bill 🙏
Your number 71: Again, “When did God say he hates divorce more than he hates violence and oppression?”
The notion that God said he hates divorce is based on a questionable translation of Malachi 2:16. See the following articles for more info on how that verse has been translated.
https://cryingoutforjustice.blog/2013/10/24/god-hates-divorce-not-always/
https://cryingoutforjustice.blog/2020/09/06/the-1611-king-james-bible-gave-if-he-hates-her-put-her-away-as-an-alternate-translation-of-malachi-216/
https://cryingoutforjustice.blog/2020/11/01/appendix-7-in-the-first-edition-of-not-under-bondage-biblical-divorce-for-abuse-adultery-and-desertion/
https://cryingoutforjustice.blog/2020/09/26/if-a-man-hates-his-wife-he-should-set-her-free-from-the-marriage-thats-what-malachi-216-says/
Thanks for those resources Barbara! Really grateful for all the research you’ve done on the matter. The question in #71 is rhetorical, I agree the “God hates divorce” is a bad translation. Perhaps a better rhetorical question would be, “Is it just to say ‘God hates divorce’ when women and children are being oppressed?”
I don't agree that a better rhetorical question would be "Is it just to say 'God hates divorce' when women and children are being oppressed."
Rather than posing a rhetorical question on that point, it would be better to say straight out, "The idea that 'God hates divorce' is based on a mis-translation of Malachi 2:16."
The bad translation has done enormous harm, and it's very hard to erase it from the minds of most Christians. It needs to be repeatedly exposed and denounced.
If you really wanted to use a rhetorical question, it could be, "Is it fair to say 'God hates divorce' when that notion is based on a mis-translation of Malachi 2:16?"
Thanks for the feedback Barbara! I appreciate the challenge to be more clear. It’s something I’ve wrestled with in this document, which is intentionally more rhetorical (in the sense of style and affect) and sometimes less clear than it could be with a different style. You’ve given me some good constructive criticism!