This is a side note, but I get very frustrated with the quoting of Heb 13:17 without an understanding of the Greek. My understanding is that “obey” there is an unfortunate translation as the meaning is more “be convinced” that just “obey.” Even Paul didn’t want hearers to simply obey his teaching but to search the scriptures and see if it was accurate and true (cf Acts 17:11). And the word submit used here is a hapox lugomenon, so somewhat harder to discern….but commentators have said it’s succumbing to a force or influence (physical or not), or relinquishing resistance. Seems like it’s sometimes used in military/combatant situations. More figuratively it can describe someone who is yielding to persuasion. In the priesthood of all believers, this idea that we simply obey the pastors/elders of our churches bc of their position and without question is not in line with scripture.
Ok, I’ll step down off my soapbox now LOL
And to the series on Lazarus, I’m loving it!! I just ordered Howard-Brook’s book :) Can’t wait to read it!
I’m here for that soapbox any day, Karen. It wasn’t until after that 90-minute nightmare conversation that I also dug into the translation difficulties with that verse. I’m still baffled by the disjunction between commentaries, which usually get the nuance, and pretty much all English translations. I wrote a little about an apologetics approach to discussing that verse with a church leader here: https://onceaweek.substack.com/p/obey-and-submit-apologetic-tools. Thanks for the interest in the Lazarus series, I’m sure you’ll love Howard-Brooks!
So much to think about! Recently I've been thinking about how the religious leaders of Jesus' day were looking for a messiah who would liberate them from the tyranny of Rome - a political messiah; and Jesus upset those plans by being the Messiah who would liberate all of us from the tyranny of sin and death. And isn't that what we are too often seeing among some religious leaders of today? They are seeking power rather than revival, both in the church and in the secular realm - political and controlling rather than spiritual and full of grace.
I love those thoughts, thanks Mary! You’re right on target with where I’m going in the final part of this series. I believe John shows us not only how Jesus as Messiah liberates from the tyranny of sin and death, but also the tyranny of oppressive religion. In John, Jerusalem oppresses spiritually/socially in the same way that Rome oppresses politically/socially. Ironically, religious leaders today who seek power and control are acting just like the leaders of Jerusalem. Thanks for making that connection!
This is a side note, but I get very frustrated with the quoting of Heb 13:17 without an understanding of the Greek. My understanding is that “obey” there is an unfortunate translation as the meaning is more “be convinced” that just “obey.” Even Paul didn’t want hearers to simply obey his teaching but to search the scriptures and see if it was accurate and true (cf Acts 17:11). And the word submit used here is a hapox lugomenon, so somewhat harder to discern….but commentators have said it’s succumbing to a force or influence (physical or not), or relinquishing resistance. Seems like it’s sometimes used in military/combatant situations. More figuratively it can describe someone who is yielding to persuasion. In the priesthood of all believers, this idea that we simply obey the pastors/elders of our churches bc of their position and without question is not in line with scripture.
Ok, I’ll step down off my soapbox now LOL
And to the series on Lazarus, I’m loving it!! I just ordered Howard-Brook’s book :) Can’t wait to read it!
I’m here for that soapbox any day, Karen. It wasn’t until after that 90-minute nightmare conversation that I also dug into the translation difficulties with that verse. I’m still baffled by the disjunction between commentaries, which usually get the nuance, and pretty much all English translations. I wrote a little about an apologetics approach to discussing that verse with a church leader here: https://onceaweek.substack.com/p/obey-and-submit-apologetic-tools. Thanks for the interest in the Lazarus series, I’m sure you’ll love Howard-Brooks!
So much to think about! Recently I've been thinking about how the religious leaders of Jesus' day were looking for a messiah who would liberate them from the tyranny of Rome - a political messiah; and Jesus upset those plans by being the Messiah who would liberate all of us from the tyranny of sin and death. And isn't that what we are too often seeing among some religious leaders of today? They are seeking power rather than revival, both in the church and in the secular realm - political and controlling rather than spiritual and full of grace.
I love those thoughts, thanks Mary! You’re right on target with where I’m going in the final part of this series. I believe John shows us not only how Jesus as Messiah liberates from the tyranny of sin and death, but also the tyranny of oppressive religion. In John, Jerusalem oppresses spiritually/socially in the same way that Rome oppresses politically/socially. Ironically, religious leaders today who seek power and control are acting just like the leaders of Jerusalem. Thanks for making that connection!